EQUIPPING NEW ROUTES – New Route Protocol
Homepage 2024 › Forums › Climbing in Kalymnos › Bolting / re-bolting issues › EQUIPPING NEW ROUTES – New Route Protocol
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September 13, 2018 at 19:12 #66475AnonymousGuest
EQUIPPING NEW ROUTES
To ensure a minimum of safety and quality standards,
the municipal council of Kalymnos has voted (259/2016)
to implement a “New Route Protocol.” Starting in
September 2018, any new routing on Kalymnos is
subject to approval by a three-person committee
(a representative of the Kalymnos municipality, a
representative of the Kalymnos Rescue Team, and
mountain guide Aris Theodoropoulos). In other words,
you must notify the municipality first and wait for
approval before you start to drill, otherwise your routes
may be taken down.
A similar set of equipping guidelines has already been
implemented elsewhere in Greece by the Hellenic
Federation of Mountaineering & Climbing (eooa.gr).
The new route protocol of Kalymnos is based on it.
⊲ So, how can I equip new routes on Kalymnos?
Send an email (address below) to the designated
committee. In the email, state your name; your previous
experience equipping sport routes; the specifications
of any hardware you plan to use, which must comply
with the specifications in the New Route Protocol;
the number of new routes you plan to equip; and the
location where you would like to equip them (sector,
sub-sector, part of the island).
Email: newclimbingroutes@kalymnos.gr
At the time of writing, the New Route Protocol for
Greece was published online (in Greek only) on the
website of the Hellenic Federation of Mountaineering
& Climbing. An English version of the Kalymnos protocol
will soon be available on climbkalymnos.com.
September 16, 2018 at 09:00 #69672AnonymousGuestExcellent, and needed all over the climbing world, but good to see Greece taking the lead.
I look forward to reading the English version as soon as possible.
I also think we should see here in this forum, all those equippers that have been approved to bolt.
Can we assume that some people will be exempt? Personally I feel that everyone, regardless of past experience should be willingly seen to be applying through this initiative, to lead by example.
I hope that this succeeds, is policed properly and leads to a sustainable continuing programme of rebolting and also to a good standardization of grading so visiting climbers can know that whoever has put up new routes, the grade will be either for an onsight or a red point ascent. This I think would be fairly useful and could easily be encouraged via this council and forum, after all, this is kalymnos.
Again, a very good move and I look forward to seeing it enforced in other up and coming areas throughout Greece soon.
September 16, 2018 at 11:37 #69676AnonymousGuestDon’t forget, and claude, master of route renaming. So 2 guys keeping the island development their hostage.
September 17, 2018 at 14:13 #69679AnonymousGuestBecause some people asking about rebolting.
Some info on the history and the guidelines for rebolting.
More info here: https://climbkalymnos.com/climbing/#maintenance
Route maintenance / rebolting
From 2000 to 2010, Kalymnos was one of the few climbing areas where routes were checked and rebolted regularly by a professional mountain guide. The foundations for a well-organised climbing venue were set early on, in 1999-2000, when Greek mountain guide Aris Theodoropoulos collaborated with the Municipality of Kalymnos, Thomas Michailides and other Greek climbers to set the standards for equipping routes on Kalymnos (closely placed stainless steel bolts and 2-bolt clipable lower-offs). The single-bolt (!) lower-offs on the first 43 routes were replaced at that time. Between 2000-2010, approximately 100 routes were rebolted every one or two years with the financial support of the local municipality.
In November/December 2008, 175 routes were rebolted by Aris Theodoropoulos, George Kopalides and George Koutsoukis. Corroded bolts and lower-offs were checked and replaced on nearly every route in the most popular sectors (Odyssey, Arhi, Spartacus, Kasteli, Iliada), as well as on certain routes in Grande Grotta and Panorama sectors. Besides corrosion, a prominent problem were the excessively worn carabiners on lower-offs: some permanent carabiners on lower-offs were literally eaten away to half their original size! As a result, for the first time RAUMER lower-offs with double opposed carabiners were used for increased safety and longevity. Furthermore, at that time bolts began to be replaced primarily by RAUMER’S 12 mm HANG FIX stainless steel expansion bolts.
In November/December 2010, the Kalymnos municipality funded the rebolting of more than 100 routes. The main sectors targeted were Symplegades, Arhi Left, Ghost Kitchen and Galatiani.
Between 2010 and 2015 there was no support by the Municipality of Kalymnos for any rebolting or maintenance efforts. With the number of routes and crags on Kalymnos perpetually growing, any rebolting and route checking efforts during that time was done exclusively by a handful of volunteers. In 2015, another large-scale rebolting project was implemented, this time with funding from an EU grant. As part of the 2015 Municipal Rebolting Project on Kalymnos, nearly 300 routes were rebolted and 100 new routes were added. See here and here for a list of rebolted routes, new routes, and other information.
https://climbkalymnos.com/list-of-rebolted-routes-and-answers-to-other-frequently-asked-questions/
Since then, maintenance of routes in need is once again being done voluntarily. Proceeds from the sale of the Kalymnos guidebook are used every year to buy bolts, anchors, and other equipment; see below.
• Guidebook proceeds and giving back to Kalymnos
In previous years (until 2010), approximately 10% of proceeds from the sale of the Kalymnos Guidebook was donated to the Municipality of Kalymnos for the purchase of materials used in route maintenance.
Since 2010, a minimum of €5000 is put aside from guidebook proceeds every year to buy bolts, hangers, and lower-offs for the voluntary bolting and rebolting of routes on Kalymnos. The vast majority of the bolts is used to rebolt older routes in need of maintenance. A small percentage of these bolts is used to put up new lines.
The volunteers involved in rebolting routes on Kalymnos make every effort to check the overall condition of crags; but with so many routes, the feedback of other climbers is vital. Please help them prioritize which routes to rebolt by e-mailing us the name of the route, climbing sector, approximate number of bolts in need of replacement, and the date when you noticed any weakened anchors.
Interested in rebolting?
If you are an experienced route equipper and would like to give back to Kalymnos by doing some rebolting, please get in touch with us first (climb@climbkalymnos.com). The local municipality must concur; rebolting in Greece must be overseen by a certified Greek mountain guide according to the latest directive by the Hellenic Federation of Mountaineering and Climbing; and the hardware used must meet a strict set of specifications (at least 12mm; 316L or HCR expansion bolts, or glue-in 316L, HCR, or titanium bolts using epoxy resin; certified by a manufacturer of climbing equipment; NO HOMEMADE BOLTS). Improper rebolting by non-qualified climbers may result in legal action in the event of an accident.
September 19, 2018 at 10:07 #69682AnonymousGuestAris.
Can I ask….
Why is this only published here in the depths of the forum? This should be on your home page as it’s BIG news, and published internationally!
Why was this not published when it was first decided on in 2016?
Do you plan on enforcing it throughout all of Greece?
I have not received a reply yet from my email to the committee. No rush, I had no plans to bolt as yet but as soon as it cools down a little I’m ready to go . Can you say how long this committee process is going to take?
Will you be here in person to sit on the committee or will you oversee from home?
You’ll note (if you read my email) that I didn’t specify where I wished to bolt. I have extensions and new lines in mind, as well as new small crags. I wouldn’t want anyone nipping in before me and stealing my lines…. Not sure anyone would willingly say where they wanted to bolt, unless of course they know already that they will be allowed.
Can you assure us of the actions that will be taken against people that bolt WITHOUT permission?
Thanks
Mike.
September 20, 2018 at 12:20 #69685AnonymousGuestReply to Mike:
>>Why is this only published here in the depths of the forum? This should be on your home page as it’s BIG news, and published internationally!
As soon as possible, hopefully in next few weeks, we will translate the protocol in English and publish a full article. We do all this in a voluntary basis when we have some free time, so is not always possible immediately. Also we are working since months to completely redesign our site, so everything will be easier and more clear to find.
>>Why was this not published when it was first decided on in 2016?
Actually, it was discussed from the council of Kalymnos municipality since then but voted on 15 June 2018.
>>Do you plan on enforcing it throughout all of Greece?
Similar guidelines are valid from Greek Climbing Federation since 19 Nov 2016.
>>>I have not received a reply yet from my email to the committee. No rush, I had no plans to bolt as yet but as soon as it cools down a little I’m ready to go . Can you say how long this committee process is going to take?
I cannot say yet. The committee it is 3 people, and we are trying to figure out what works best.
>>>Will you be here in person to sit on the committee or will you oversee from home?
I usually spend about half of the year at kalymnos. When I am not on the island I can communicate by skype with the committee.
>>>You’ll note (if you read my email) that I didn’t specify where I wished to bolt. I have extensions and new lines in mind, as well as new small crags. I wouldn’t want anyone nipping in before me and stealing my lines…. Not sure anyone would willingly say where they wanted to bolt, unless of course they know already that they will be allowed.
Better to speak about this with all the members of the committee.
>>>Can you assure us of the actions that will be taken against people that bolt WITHOUT permission?
First the bolts will be taken off. Then it is up to the municipality what they will do, since it will now be against local laws.
Finally, I have to admit here that for the quality and safety of Kalymnos climbing it is very important to follow the guidelines of the protocol.
During the last years we have seen in Kalymnos some very dangerous routes, with uncleaned big loose blocks and improperly placed bolts.
We already cleaned and rebolted some of them, but if this keep going it will be very bad for Kalymnos (and adds extra unplanned work for us than the needed rebolting and bolting of routes).
September 21, 2018 at 04:46 #69689AnonymousGuestThanks for the reply Aris.
I would be keen to re bolt the central section of Skila at Odyssey as this is one of those poorly bolted routes you mention. I think it needs 2 bolts moved and a new one added to make it a safer and more enjoyable route.
Can I go ahead and do this, or do I have to wait for the committee?
Cheers
Mike.
September 21, 2018 at 08:05 #69690AnonymousGuestNo, Mike, you must wait for the committee.
I personally bolted Skylla at 2008, we should check out exactly the needed changes.
September 21, 2018 at 11:23 #69691AnonymousGuestOK…
When you have the time and feel like chatting about it, let me know. For the record, the crux has to be done before it’s possible to clip and there is a ledge below. Also, the drawer on the next clip sits directly over the holds you need to make the move.
IMHO, it needs 1 new bolt and 2 others to be repositioned.
If this is done we have another 3 star and safe route, and probably 7c.
September 25, 2018 at 12:40 #69695AnonymousGuestGreat News for bolting efforts
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=896934690502640&id=100005583511697
September 25, 2018 at 12:53 #69696AnonymousGuestOnly just had my first visit to Kalymnos, it was really great excellent routes
If you personally bolted Skylla then why did you bolt it dangerously??
Ticked this on the 19/09
Totally agree with Mike above definitely needs a new bolt and 2 moving but maybe 7b 2*
September 27, 2018 at 04:52 #69698AnonymousGuestThanks Dr F.
Maybe 7b+
September 27, 2018 at 15:27 #69703AnonymousGuestSimon says 6b+ is enough! Please stop to speculate. This route has many ascents, most people gave it 3 stars, nobody complain about bolting!
From website 8a.nu:
Name Grade Name Comment Stars Date
Ale Sollami 7c Scylla Gran tiro vario, con passo duro a metà e uscita insidiosa. Roccia perfetta nonostante le ripetizioni. 3 2018-07-07
Go Kamil 7c Scylla Repeat. 3 2018-07-03
Go Kamil 7c Scylla Repeat. 3 2018-06-19
Jennifer Wood 7c Scylla very nice, underrated route. only 1 real hard move but techy all the way 3 2017-10-25
Go Kamil 7c Scylla Repeat. 3 2017-07-30
Go Kamil 7c Scylla Soft Excellent climb, nice sequences, good holds. With three stars it deserves it would get more traffic and become less crumbly. Really liked it. 3 2017-07-09
Aleksandr Semenov 7c Scylla 0 2016-10-29
Anonymous 7b+ Scylla 0 2015-12-17
Lee Cujes 7c Scylla Just downgraded in 2015 guide. Two 7c’s in an hour or so. Great day. This route is super good and deserves more attention. [3] 2 2015-10-07
Margot Salon 7c Scylla 0 2015-07-11
Marcel Dettling 7c+ Scylla good route with a crimpy (and defined?) start, then a techy sequence and finally long moves on good pockets. 3 2014-10-16
Anonymous 7c+ Scylla 3 2014-09-07
Mario Oliveri 7c+ Scylla Soft 0 2012-09-11
Andrea Di Rienzo 7c+ Scylla With Killerdog Ascent !!! 3 2012-04-24
Nicola Noe 7c+ Scylla 2011-10-05
September 28, 2018 at 09:35 #69704AnonymousGuestI was surprised to read about imperfect bolting on Scylla. I have climbed it number of times and never noticed anything worrying there.
Also Mike, there is no such thing as Redpoint and Onsight grade for route in sport climbing.
September 28, 2018 at 12:55 #69705AnonymousGuestHi Kamil, thanks for your input, although wrong. Of course there is a difference between on sight and redpoint in sport climbing! Feel free to explain that comment, I’m all ears! If you’re joking, then I missed it, sorry.
As for Scylla, we both know, you are younger, fitter, better, and significantly taller than I am. So for you maybe nothing worrying. For me it is worrying. We are all after all, different. But, I bow to your superior ability.
Scylla. Wow, thanks for that Aris. (By the way, we all speculate about grades, its our other hobby
Maybe if one is, lets say, taller, then perhaps the bolt by the crux is reachable, or perhaps if the climber is say, better, then again, maybe they can reach it by way of a different solution? Who knows. All I know is I have tried to protect the move, and I cannot. I have to make the crux before I can clip and I like my ankles as they are
I guess if one climbs 8a and more, then Scylla is a cruise and feels easy at 7c/7c+
Consider those of us pushing our grades and ability, trying hard routes, or indeed any routes at our limit.
Those routes where clearly being tall is a distinct advantage become hard and a touch dangerous if one simply cannot reach the bolt!!! No, being a stubborn bugger I’d like to do Scylla, but I’d prefer not to bust myself on the ledge if I fall.
One of the beautiful things about climbing is we all find a different way of doing things. For me then, I find the bolts to be poorly placed, but if the democratic feeling is that they are fine, then OK Aris, leave it.
When I bolted Spitfire and my other routes there, I tried to consider the result of a fall at every single bolt, for any climber, and tried to make the bolt placement a position of safety, rather than part of the crux. In fact, I tried to follow what Claude had told me was the Kalymnos Protocol, to make routes as safe as possible, for everyone to enjoy. For me on Scylla, the crux is clipping the bolt, not making the move. I guess I need to take my brave pills
I’ll get my coat…… Clearly, I picked the wrong route!
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