Equipment , ethical question!

[Anonymous]

As Hans’ wife I feel that I have to share my thoughts and disappointment on this issue even if this is the first time in my life I am posting something on an internet forum:

After 2 nice weeks on Kaly I find myself now in complete confusion: How has this easygoing Kaly-climbing-community developed? I´m honestly shocked! After not being able to join Hans for the last 6 years, I was really happy to be back. As usual we did our “contribution” for climbing development on the island. I had to take notice of a lot of changes – I guess after 6 years that´s normal. But I´ve never seen a place where existing routes have been changed to “create” new routes. That is an absolute “no-go” for me! Especially if that takes place without talking to the equippers of the routes that shall be modified. I guess Hans would have even agreed to change his lines slightly!

And I am really sad of what has been done to Kaly’s nice rock in some places: modulation, creative destruction… – some might call it “smoothening” others “chipping”. However that´s a shame! If that development will continue, it won´t take long before you´ll find nice colorful indoor-grips on the walls to substitute the missing natural structure. That can´t be the right way!

Isn´t there anybody who has the guts to stop this insane development?

Talking about bolting: extra exceptional for me is the fact that safe routes with good material are removed without notice and need. Who is responsible for that? Why aren´t the equippers at least heard before destroying what they have donated for other climbers? We spent time and money: every route costs us a minimum of 50€ – paid out of our private pocket! (In total this vacation was over 250€ spent for climbing development on Kaly!). Are we destroying somebodys business idea or what is the point? Please help me to understand what is going on!

We thought to leave nice routes that are very well worth climbing! What will happen to our lower-offs and hangers? Would be nice to get at least them back!

For me the consequence for the future is not to invest a single Euro on the development of climbing on Kaly. And next time I´ll come (if there will be a next time) I will come as a “consuming climbing tourist” without spending time on cleaning, bolting, fixing etc.

I really hope the Kaly-climbing-community manages to come back to the relaxed and friendly atmosphere I was used to! Good luck! Hope to be back than!

Jeannette

PS Just one last comment about the rumors I heard about German-French-Friendship: Nobody asked me which nationality I want to have when I was born! Racism has so far not been connected with climbing for me! I really hope that it´s only rumors…

[Anonymous]

Thanks “dsauerbrun” for the info that obviously more routes have been removed without notice and discussion. Who knows more about it? Why? Who did it?

Concerning your bad experience on Paradise beach:

Where was it with the broken handhold? There are a block of 6 routes on the left side, the three left from last autumn and the tree right ones from this year. Than there is on the right side another block of I think 8 routes. The three left from last autumn, the others are a mix of older ones and 2 of last autumn. Do you remember where it was? A route named “Angelika” isn’t there. I guess you were one of the first maybe 10 persons who have ever touched that rock! As an equipper we always try to clean the wall as good as possible of loose rocks and vegetation. But of course new routes need traffic and caution before they are in “comfortable climbing shape”. In new routes you´ll normally find smaller edges etc. breaking. What must not happen is that bigger pieces of rock are loose and fall off! It hopefully didn´t happen to you? But that can even happen in older sectors. Many accidents happen because of breaking rock. I my opinion the rock quality at Paradise Beach is comparable with what we found on Seabreeze in 2001: Very solid and sharp rock!

Nice climbs and best wishes!

Hans

[Anonymous]

maybe i have the name of the crag wrong. It’s the one closest to ilias taverna in palionisos, the one before palionisos bay. Anyways, if you give me the list of route names and grades in order I will probably remember which one i had trouble on and which ones were whited out on the wall. Broken handhold, for me, happened a bit before the 2nd clip(fortunately I had already clipped in), I’d say the piece was maybe the size of .5L water bottle, my partner broke one up halfway up the wall as well. The rock was just very brittle and sketchy.

[Anonymous]

Hi dsauerbrun,

I try to remember. In Beach Paradise from left to right:

Evagelia 6a, Elena 6a+, Startschuss 5c, (these 3 are from last year), Hanetti 6a, Schwarte 6a, Sharp 6b (these are the new ones), than 10m more left Hope 5c, a hard 6b+ from left over the hole, Sorry 6b, and some more. 2 where the name is not more to read.

Do you know, which ones are distroyed?

Hans

[Anonymous]

The routes from let to right:

1 Evagelia, 6a ***, 20m (Hans Weninger, Dietrich Kaiser 11/13)

2 Elena, 6a ***, 20m (Hans Weninger, Dietrich Kaiser 11/13)

3 Startschuss, 5c ***, 20m (Franz Seidenschwarz, Hans Weninger, Angie Hafner11/13)

3a Hanetti, 6a (Hans Weninger, Jeanette Weninger 4/14)

3b Schwarte, 6a (Hans Weninger, Jeanette Weninger 4/14)

3c Sgarp, 6b (Hans Weninger, Jeanette Weninger 4/14)

4 Hope, 5c ****, 30m (Theo Hoch, Siggi Mühlbacher 11/13)

5 Ilias, 6b+ ***, 27m (Siggi Mühlbacher, Theo Hoch 11/13)

6 Sorry, 6a+ ****, 25m (Hans Weninger, Dietrich Kaiser 11/13)

7 Kalidonis, 6a ***, 25m (Hommel & Friedrich 2012 ??)

8 Pockets, 6a+ *** , 25m (Hans Weninger, Dietrich Kaiser 11/13)

9 Nikolas, 6a***, 23m (Hommel & Friedrich 10/2011)

10 Bay, 6a**, 20m (Hommel & Friedrich 10/2011)

Nr. 7 and Nr 9 hab been overpainted in white by local owner. Because in Kalymnos it means, when you write your name on the crag – that you say: this is my property! Of course Hommel and Friedrich didn’t know, but the local owner was very very angry and upset!

Christian

[Anonymous]

Dear all, I’m rather shocked about both what seems to have happened on the rock, as well as the style of discussion here. Let me add a few points in the hope to bring things into perspective … from a very average climber who also invested some bolts in Kalymnos.

1) I’m rather sure none of the crags belong to a single person, so I’d suggest no-one appropriates the crags symbolically as well.

2) sorry guys, none of the routes in question will feature highly in the ultimate written history of alpinism, so i’d suggest a MUCH more relaxed approach.

3) I’ve climbed routes by both equippers, and have been happy … I assume that both do their level best to create enjoyable routes. Sometimes things might work out different than expected … which – see 2) – is no tragedy at all, and no reason for destruction either.

4) no idea of the legal situation in Greece, but i do know places where bolts once in the rock become a public good, the destruction liable to prosecution. I’m sure no one really wants our enjoyable activity go this way.

I’d kindly suggest to stop the war of words as well as the bolting/debolting games right now and get back to a civilized interaction. I think all involved have reached an age that might lead to both wisdom and more laid back behaviour.

One last sentence regarding ‘local’: as far as I know Hans, Bruno and Claude are not typically Greek names ..

Best wishes, thomas

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