, Grade Conversion Table

[Anonymous]

Hello to all. I am an American climber having climbed for 50 years throughout the US. I have also climbed in Spain, Italy, Switzerland and Greece. In fact I am in Kalymnos now for m sixth visit here and seventh visit climbing in Greece. I have climbed over 450 routes here on Kalymnos. I feel I have a pretty good feel for the US/French grade conversions. You may disagree with me but I cannot agree with the Grade Conversion Table as presented in the Kalymnos guidebook by Aris Theodoroulos.

With every iota of respect for Aris and the fabulous guidebook he has written I find the grade conversions to the US YDS grades are off target. How is it, to begin with, that 4c can be 5.8 and 5a can be 5.7/5.8? I will pasd by that as a typographical error. I am guessing that 5a is really 5.8/9.

That leads to 5c that Aris has at 10a. Next is 6a, also 10a AND b. Where does that leave 5c+?

Now 6a+ is also 10b even though 6a could be 10b.

6c+ is another combined conversion. Combining 11b and 11c is absurd.

So I have developed an alternative conversion table that seems apropriate for the climbs and grades as I have expetienced them

5a – 8+

5b – 5.9

5b+ – 5.9+

5c – 10a

5c+ – 10b

6a – 10c

6a+ – 10d

6b – 11a

6b+ – 11b

6c – 11c

6c+ – 11d

7a – 12a

From here on the grading conversion continues one letter grade ahead of the present table

[Anonymous]

I am sorry Aris for the misspelling of your name in my post. I carefully typed in your last name as per the guidebook. Something happened to omit the letters ‘ op’ .

I would also like to invite any opinions or discussion on this topic.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Old ….boy, Thank you very much for that info. For sure you know better the grade conversion between F ones US than us.

We will use this, at the next edition of the KALYMNOS and Greece guidebooks.

Thanks again,

Have fun at Kaly,

Aris

[Anonymous]

Not convinced by those conversions (although I have climbed in the States only once, and it was a long time ago) The standard conversion tables I’ve seen generally have 7a = 5.11d and 7a+ = 5.12a.

For example rockfax: https://www.rockfax.com/publications/grades/

8a.nu: https://www.8a.nu/?IncPage=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.8a.nu%2Farticles%2FShowArticle.aspx%3FArticleId%3D4721

[Anonymous]

Oh my God… I have been 14 times climbing in Kaly, and spent a couple of years (a long time ago) in the states, climbing from the Gunks to Yosemite. Right now I still manage to onsight 6b’s at Kalymnos, while back then (and I was thirty years younger than I am now) I could barely lead 5.10’s… something doesn’t work, seems to me.

My personal view is that, altogether, these comparisons make no sense (or better, they make sense only as a first approximation, but it is meaningless to try to go into more detail). The american system has been invented, and developed throughout history, referring to types of rocks and styles of climbing that do not fit with the french rating system, basically evolved from the old closed, six-degrees system, referring to “modern” limestone and sport climbing. Rating systems have always been a total mess, even using the same scale, and anyone climbing at Kalymnos can tell the sometimes huge differences between a Remy’s 6b of 2001 and a recent 6b at Arginonta, say. So let it be and enjoy the total crazyness of the whole thing…And, hope to see you soon and discuss the matter at Sofrano’s on a cold Mythos…

[Anonymous]

Gianni, that is a good point you make regarding the development of grades in relation to the rock type and climbing style. The YDS grading system evolved from California granite with its cracks and corners and roofs back in the day when 5.9 was the mathematical top of the scale. Granite is a far different medium than the prevailing limestone of European sport crags. I certainly agree with your point about Remy’s routes and grades. I prefer a Claude Idoux route any day.

Aris, A friend of mine, Michele Simoneau, has researched grade conversion table and has found this one which may be the answer to the doubling up of low and mid range grades found in the table in the present guidebook.

https://mojagear.com/learn/2015/12/15/rock-climbing-grades-comparison-chart-rating-systems/

The comparisons in the upper grades in this table are the same as in yours beginning with the French 7a being YDS 11d which most tables seem to agree with (though I don’t). The low and mid range grades are clearer and somewhat easier to interpret as well. Would a top flight climber agree that a 7b is in the same boat as a 7c? Probably not so why must someone in the 6a, 6b range have to remain in the dark as to the true difficulty of the route about to be climbed?

Thanks for the input everyone.

Steve

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